Mad_Gerbil
()
10/17/03 05:30 PM
Mike Mentzer's Book

I've received and read most of Mike's book. In fact, I bought it yesterday and blew through it rather quickly because it is well written and explains tons of things.

I'm a little skeptical.

Here is the chest workout. It is the ONLY chest work you get in his 4 day plan (excluding brief warmup):

1 Set of Dumbbell Incline Flyes (6-10 reps to failure)
1 Set of Incline Bench Press (3-5 reps to failure)

That's it. That is all the work your pectorals get for 5-7 days.

Now I'm finding this very hard to believe so I was wondering if there is anyone out here who subscribes to this program who has seen very good gains using it.

Are we to believe Mike used that routine to win Mr. Universe?

Anyways, I'm willing to give the program a shot from now through the first of the year just to gage how it effects me. Provided I produce a meaningful response I'll post my full 3 month diary here as documentation.

If anyone else has used this program with success, please let me know here.

Thanks.

RnScotch
()
10/17/03 07:23 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Arthur Jones created HIT back in the 1970's as an alternative to the high volume routines that often gave its gym followers little results. He scientifically tested his methods in order to convince others in the training industry, and also to help sell his machines. They became popular and Nautilus centres sprung up all over the United States. Mike Mentzer and others that he trained took what they learnt from Jones and created their own twists to the system, which at the time was heavily based on pre-exhaust techniques and sometimes negatives. In some cases they improved it, sometimes they didn't. The most influential spokespersons for modern day HIT training would likely be people like Dr Ken Liestner, the sadly departed Mike Mentzer, Stuart McRobert, and others who you'll no-doubt find if you do a simple internet search

RnScotch
()
10/17/03 07:40 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Here is some more books you may want to have a look at if you are interseted in the subject..

Maximize Your Training by Matt Brzycki, Ed

Keys to Progress by John McCallum

Super Squats by Randall Strossen

Dinosaur Training by Brooks Kubik

Beyond Brawn by Stuart McRobert

Blood and Guts by Dorian Yates

now personally i prefer the dorian yates Philosphy on training and have made huge gains training that way i do IMO beleive that mike and arther jones where on more than juice when they wrote there routines ...

Mad_Gerbil
()
10/17/03 08:24 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Well I guess I'll try it.

If I give it a 3 month try it won't harm anything and if it works I'll be way ahead.

Tenebrae
()
10/17/03 08:44 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Gerbil,
me. for 9 years!
Why should i bother spending days in the gym wasting my time and energy doing work surplus to the minimal biological stimuli needed?
I used to perform 1 set of flat flyes followed immediately by incline press, but found that as my incline flye strength went up, which was workout to workout, inclines rarely did, stagnated or got harder to perform as the flyes exercise was just too much of an effort.
I perform instead one set of each plus forced reps, negatives etc. After a brief rest between.
and thats it, one chest workout every 14 days or so. Progress takes its time on this performance scale but is workout to workout.
on the odd occasion i may perform incline press in partial style. Or perform bench press, same set ratio.

I do still perform triceps as an example in the form of extensions followed by weighted dips, immediately afterwards, forced reps etc and generally one set of pushdowns. once a fortnight, much the same as my thighs, calfs and most other body parts.

Why do i need to perform more exercise? i estimate a gain of probably 1-2 lbs a year of muscle mass after so long of training naturally it aint so bad.(17+ years)
Training in the conventional more is more fashion leads me into massive muscular regression and also the stench of moronic behaviour erks me some what.

Mike and his brother ray, trained 3 days a week for no more than 45 mins, this was terrribly hard work and of course they took steriods, which helps matters somewhat. This in comparison to the rest of the bodybuilding fraternity of the era was about one days workout.

You tell me wot makes sense?

Rick

Mad_Gerbil
()
10/17/03 10:31 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Well like I said, I'll give it a try for 3 months and see what happens. I'll keep a detailed diary of my workouts and post the results here, good or bad.

There is SO much information out there that it's impossible to tell who actually knows what until one actually tries it, I guess.

*lifts mug of beer*

Here is to a 3 month experiment!

Mad_Gerbil
()
10/18/03 12:10 AM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Rick:

A question about frequency.
There is no way I can imagine waiting 4 days between each workout so that cycling through all the 3 workout plan takes 12 days.

I'd like to work out 3 days a week (different parts). Thoughts?

RnScotch
()
10/18/03 11:52 AM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Here is my current routine if it helps you any, remember to adjust the sets to suit your level by that i mean less do not do any more than what i have written... i have used this sort of routine for nearly 13 years out of the 16 years i have been working out and at the Present i am sitting at 260 lbs

In reply to:

Workout 1
Legs
Squats - 4x8
Hack Squats - 3x8
Leg Curl - 4x8
Standing Calf Raises - 3x8
Chest
Incline Dumbbell Press - 3x8
Incline Flyes - 3x8
Bench Press - 4x8
Triceps
Lying Triceps Ext - 4x8
Pushdowns - 3x8
Abs
Forward Crunches - 3x8


Workout 2

Back
Deadlift - 4x8
Barbell Rows - 3x8
Pulldowns - 3x8 (use close or wide grip)
Shoulders
Military Press - 4x8
Lateral Raises - 3x8
Traps
Dumbbell Shrugs - 4x8
Biceps
Barbell Curls - 4x8
Incline Dumbbell Curls - 3x8
Abs
Leg Raises - 3x15-20



So converting my above routine to true HIT format would look something like this.

You will split your body in two sessions
Train three days a week on nonconsecutive days and alternating workouts (workout 1 on Monday, workout 2 on Wednesday, one on Friday, two on Monday and so on).
Perform each workout 3 times in a 2-week period.
Use a weight that let you hit failure around the 8 reps. When you reach 8 reps add more weight.
The rest should be 90-120 secs.
Perform each one of the exercises in good form.

Workout 1
Legs
Squats (2 warm up sets of 15-25) - 2x8
Hack Squats - 2x8
Leg Curl (2 warm up sets of 15-25) - 2x8
Standing Calf Raises (2 warm up sets of 15) - 1x8
Chest
Incline Dumbbell Press (2 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Incline Flyes - 2x8
Bench Press - 2x8
Triceps
Lying Triceps Ext (2 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Pushdowns - 2x8
Abs
Forward Crunches - 3x8


Workout 2

Back
Deadlift (2 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Pulldowns (2 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Shoulders
Military Press (2 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Traps
Dumbbell Shrugs (1 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Biceps
Barbell Curls (1 warm up sets of 15) - 2x8
Incline Dumbbell Curls - 2x8
Abs
Leg Raises - 3x15-20



Mad_Gerbil
()
10/18/03 02:27 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

I'm gonna give the Mentzer approach a full 3 month trial. If I don't get results in that time then I'll add to it some.

At the very least, it's a good approach for me since it will have me actually listening to my body more than I've ever done before. It may take me a full year to figure out what works for me, and that is okay.

Tenebrae
()
10/18/03 08:46 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Thats the whole idea gerbil, start at the minimum required and work from there, its the only logical route really.
Scotch has found that no more than 2 sets per exercise works well for him, i may perform 2 sets myself for a laugh but during the 2nd set i may feel somewhat stronger in the first few reps, by about 4-5 im dead. Better for me to blow myself to bits with forced reps and negatives and other nasty things instead of those extra sets, which only lead me into a deeper hole, which is hard to climb out of.
Remember gerbil, you must and i mean must work as hard as hell, this HIT isnt like just doing 10 reps, saying cor that made me breath a bit then doing ur inclines etc so it just feels a tad uncomfortable. HIT is very very hard, be prepared to push urself like never before and you must have a training partner! There are many examples in mikes book of the motivation he used, you need this, otherwise it will be all for nothing.
The training is easy, having the mindset to work like never before is really the hardest part.
I began my HIT in earnest once again after a few years farting about, no serious training partners and little drive etc, and within 2 months gained 1/2 inch on my arms, then i ripped one in half but there we go! Still happy with the right one, 18.5 inches, but i had the drive and that is what really matters.


Rick

Tenebrae
()
10/18/03 09:20 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Gerbil,
3 days a week, ask yourself why you need too? For some its an escape a routine a place to hide etc. I used to train every day! Then 5, 4,3,2, now 1.
In the beginning, since you are relatively weak in comparison to what you can become, training more frequently is possible, that is if u have the faculties required to successfully respond to weight training. If you have read mikes book you will be aware that there exists a massive spectrum of individuals, some who couldnt even do one rep without snuffing it, literally, and those who can fart and grow. Scotch judging by his goddam huge 32inch thighs is a member of that fart and grow club at the least upper end of the spectrum, myself, high middle level, what are you? You are about to find out.

Training is the stimulus to growth, the less needed to stimulate growth the more energy units left for that purpose. Use it all up with extra training, which will happen easier as u get stronger and you will become overtrained, i'e a state where ur body can no longer cope with the exhaustive effects of training and recovery and leave you in a constant state of fatigue. 3 days means nothing biologically, its a human time scale nothing more, your body has its own in built time frame for recovery, find it and work within its limits.

Mikes book serves not to tell you what to do, only to offer a guide, a starter to help you figure your own path and one that starts with that all important step in the right direction.
If i learned nothing more from Mike it was this, question everything, ask why and how, never take someones word for anything or believe all that you read and learn how to think!

He doesnt say his word is law in that book, he offers only his honesty in what he believes to be correct using science and his own vast army of personally trained clients as evidence, of which i am one.

Make use of the materials supplied and make your own judgement.

Rick

Mad_Gerbil
()
10/20/03 11:58 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

I've found www.highintensity.net

I pass it along to those interested.

Tenebrae
()
10/21/03 09:10 PM
Re: Mike Mentzer's Book

Cheers Gerbil, i might just try and win a t shirt!

Rick


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